Hello,
Now we can start blogging.
Here is the post about Thoreau from Wikipedia:
“Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison. The proper place today, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. It is there that the fugitive slave, and the Mexican prisoner on parole, and the Indian come to plead the wrongs of his race should find them; on that separate, but more free and honorable, ground, where the State places those who are not with her, but against her— the only house in a slave State in which a free man can abide with honor. If any think that their influence would be lost there, and their voices no longer afflict the ear of the State, that they would not be as an enemy within its walls, they do not know by how much truth is stronger than error, nor how much more eloquently and effectively he can combat injustice who has experienced a little in his own person. Cast your whole vote, not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence. A minority is powerless while it conforms to the majority; it is not even a minority then; but it is irresistible when it clogs by its whole weight. If the alternative is to keep all just men in prison, or give up war and slavery, the State will not hesitate which to choose. If a thousand men were not to pay their tax-bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible. If the tax-gatherer, or any other public officer, asks me, as one has done, “But what shall I do?” my answer is, “If you really wish to do anything, resign your office.” When the subject has refused allegiance, and the officer has resigned his office, then the revolution is accomplished. But even suppose blood should flow. Is there not a sort of blood shed when the conscience is wounded? Through this wound a man’s real manhood and immortality flow out, and he bleeds to an everlasting death. I see this blood flowing now.”
My questions:
1. Is the blood real or figurative?
2. Is Thoreau an anarchist or a pacifist?
3. What do you think of Thoreau?
Please also read the document about his influences. Posted as an attachment.
Happy reading!
R.Charbonnier
December 11, 2006 at 9:01 pm
Bastien posted something, but he put it in the comment under the attachment Thoreau2.doc, so all of you couldn’t see/read it. Here it is:
Bastien Steinbauer Says:
December 9th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
What is naïve art?
Artists Naïve art are in disrepancy between the modern art and the past art because of their clumsiness or lack of culture. Derold Page is a good example of naïve artist. He painted differents pictures which are very strange and different with the modern society.
There are many english naïve artists like Jane BEADLE BELY, Gertrud HALSBAND, Perle HESSING, Andrew MURRAY
Derold Page is born in South Africa in 1947. After working in Johannesburg as an interior designer, he went into fashion design in 1972.
After protestation against apartheid and the massacer, Derold Page immigrated to England and began to paint. (before, he worked as an interior designer and in the fashion design)
His harmonious, detailed, peaceful paintings are often philosophical metaphors, expressing his belief that all natural things are very precious and that all are brothers, who must live together in harmony. He has also found a unique way of painting dreams, sounds and ideas which make his work very personal.
He exposes in his website many pictures which are sometimes very strange as if it was paitnig of dreams… In website, we can understand he likes cats because there are a lot of cats pictures!
I like the picture which is called “MIDWINTER’S DAYDREAM”. We see a black cat which is sleeping and many birds on the tree. Birds are coloured and it contrast with the snow.
There are another pictures without cats like ultimate British pig which is funny. We can see a very very big pig with the map of Great-Britain on him!
I like this picture painted by Dayal Kaur Khalsa, another naïve artist, because he painted hot colors like green and yellow and blue. It is very warm and friendly.
THOREAU
Is the blood real or figurative?
I think the blood is figurative and “shed innocent blood” refered to the State violence against rebellion against injustices as slavery and dictatorship!
Is Thoreau an anarchist or a pacifist?
Even if Thoreau had a rebellious speech, I think he was a pacifist man who just want to leave in a fair world without slavery and violences. Maybe at this time, he was considered as an anarchist but according to me, the fact is that he was against the war and it is a symbol of intelligence, reflection, and maturity.
What do you think of Thoreau?
According to me, Thoreau is an intellectual pacifist man. He was a vegetarian and he was a graduate of Harvard. He respected the environment. After, he became a transcendentalist. In 1844, he decided to begin a new experience and he lived in forest in a self-built house. In 1846, he refused to pay the local tax because of his opposition to the Mexican-American war and slavery, thus he was arrested and jailed.
His essay which called « Civil Disobedience » refer to this experience and his reasons for taking this stand and it influenced such politicals theorists and activists as Leo Tolstoy, Gandhi, Martin Luther King.
I think it is good to be recognize by peacemen like Gandhi and ML King. It symbolizes the richness of his spirit!
January 9, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Is the blood real or figurative?
I think the blood is both figurative and real. When the State commits violence against some citizen there is a real blood flowing but when Thoreau says “Is there not a sort of blood shed when the conscience is wounded?” we can consider that the blood is figurative.
Is Thoreau an anarchist or a pacifist?
Even if Thoreau is against the State he is not for a violent revolution. He thought of a peace movement by not paying the tax-bills, that is the raison why I consider him as a pacifist.
What do you think of Thoreau?
I think Thoreau is the kind of man ready to fight for humans rights but not by all means necessary. There is always a message of peace involve in his action and he is a man who stand for the minorities. I appreciate the fact that is don’t speak only for himself.
January 12, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Thank you Benjamin. Your presentation about “The Roots” was good, interesting and fun. I’m sorry if I had to cut the discussion short to have more time. What do think of the class so far?
January 23, 2007 at 11:22 am
1. Thoreau was pacifist, so the blood could not be real but he was ironic. Even if the blood is real or figurative, the question is not here but really : how the conscience is wounded ? If it doesn’t move, that’s slavery. If it can moove, that’s revolution, rebellion, insurection. But we can notify, thanks to Thoreau the consience can’t die. In fact, slavery existed but conscience was more powerful.
2. We can say that Thoreau was an anarchist and a pacifist if not paying taxes because we are against slavery and mexican war during his period was a reason. But, that’s so restrictive. Indeed, Thoreau was in advance. He has developed numerous contemporary thoughts, influenced the most known pacifists like Martin Luther King or Ghandi and anounced topics of future (like environment). He was creative, open-minded and curious (in constant evolution).
He has stopped to teach because students have been wounded (châtiments corporels). This fact concludes it was in advance. Resistance to Civil Government shows he was considered like an anarchist but he didn’t ask to abolish all the laws but just the most unfair. Nowadays, he is considered as a great fair and good man for his actions, above all his involvement for John Brown and his openings for all indians cultures.
He was pacifist and it’s a really good thing because all actions realized, even for good cause, with violence create unfair and innocent victims.
This man must be known with lots of honor because he had understood more and more things during his life.
3.To my mind Thoreau was a genius. Not a mathematic genius, a genius who was a philosoph, an environmentalist (that’s very amazing for this period), a social innovator…
Taking informations on Thoreau, i have notified we must read enough to rise our spirit (like in his shief at WAlden), or we can tried to practice arts to develop any amount of qualities, thoughts…
We must reflect by ourselves, express in different genders, develop our mind, be open-minded…
I continue his work saying “construis toi, toi même”.
Like lots of genius, he was misunderstood and he has followed to achieve his goal so far of american people. Finally, who people were the most developed spiritually between indian and american people ?
Thoreau had choosen since he has met indian people.
IF i say that his last word before to die was indian, what do you think?
According to me, even his last word is a symbol of tolerance and feelings (reconnaissance) for this people who had understood lots of things.
January 30, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Florent,
THANK YOU! What you wrote was inspiring. I learnt something from you. I didn’t know that Thoreau’s last words were in Indian, but I did know that he had met Indians and made friends with them. He really saw the beginnngs of the Industrial society and wanted to preserve Man’s contact with the natural environment. He wanted to preserve the natural world. He also wanted to abolish slavery because slavery doesn’t exist among animals: we invented it, so we have to stop it.
Take care and Carpe Diem. R. Charbonnier